St. Maximos' Hut

A libertarian solution to the gay marriage issue
On Tully's page.

The money quote:

I do not think that that State ought to have any role in defining the boundaries, purposes, or roles in marriage. Marriage is an Eccelesiastical sacrament, and should come under the purview of the Church and the Church alone - not the state, and not the Church-as-agent-of-the-State. When left to the Church, the sacrament maintains its integrity as a sacrament - not a tax status or organizational tool. If a Church wants to marry two gay men, so be it. If a Church wants to prohibit gay marriage and condemn homosexuality, so be it. Get the State out of the Churches entirely, and let them operate according to their own doctrine and consciences.

Posted by Andy Morriss on Tuesday September 13, 2005 at 11:10am
Steven Bass:
C.S. Lewis says something similar in Mere Christianity.


Before leaving the question of divorce, I should like to distinguish two things which are very often confused. The Christian conception of marriage is one: the other is the quite different question -- how far Christians, if they are voters or Members of Parliament, ought to try to force their views of marriage on the rest of the community by embodying them in the divorce laws. A great many people seem to think that if you are a Christian yourself you should try to make divorce difficult for every one.

I do not think that. At least I know I should be very angry if the Mahommedans tried to prevent the rest of us from drinking wine. My own view is that the Churches should frankly recognise that the majority of the British people are not Christians and, therefore, cannot be expected to live Christian lives. There ought to be two distinct kinds of marriage: one governed by the State with rules enforced on all citizens, the other governed by the Church with rules enforced by her on her own members. The distinction ought to be quite sharp, so that a man knows which couples are married in a Christian sense and which are not.
9.13.2005 11:49am
Jonathan Strong (mail) (www):
I too would like it if the State could remove itself from marriage. Is that likely? Most certainly it is not. If we are to choose how the State sanctions marriage, then, it seems eminently clear to me that altering its definition in a way that it is at odds with all of history is not a good idea.
9.14.2005 3:54pm
Fr. Gregory Jensen:
While I appreciate the point that C.S. Lewis is making, he is simply wrong.

First, in defining marriage as a between a man and a woman and in prohibiting (or at least making) a divorce difficult, the state is not (necessarily) enforcing a uniquely Christian understanding of marriage. While not only this, laws about marriage reflect society's concern for the welfare of children rather then of adults. The emotional, physical and social health of children is of concern to the whole society not simply the parents. It is for this reason that we have marriage laws.

Look what has happened as we have increasingly allowed the desires of adults, rather then the welfare of children, to guide our laws about marriage. The divorce rate as well as the rate of illegitimate births have sky rocketed while increasing numbers of children are born into a generational poverty.

Second,as it pertains to marriage, the State certainly sees fit to interject itself into the Church's life. Yes, the State does acknowledge as legal a marriage that I celebrate as a priest. But, the State also sees fit to imposes its own values on that marriage by its willingness to grant a divorce to a couple who I married.

Third and finally, assuming that children are protected (and thus that adults are held accountable for the children then produce) it maybe that, in the final analysis, it is best for the state to get out of the marriage business. But, I'm simply not sure.

In Christ,

+Fr. Gregory Jensen

(Friend to Fr. Michael Butler)
9.18.2005 6:59pm