"Ave Maria Town"
Juan Non-Volokh provoked a lengthy exchange in the comments to his post on the Ave Maria law school's plan to move to Florida, to a community where Tom Monahagn plans to use property rights to provide a Catholic-values community:
Juan, and Ann Althouse, referred to this as "creepy".
There are several issues involved here and I want to only focus on one. First, whether Ave Maria should move or not is not an issue I have a strong opinion about. At least some of the students, faculty, and alumni object to the move and it may or may not be a good idea. I wouldn't rule out it being a reasonable move (the legal job market in Michigan is not as good as in Florida in general and that matters to some extent), but let's leave that aside.
Second, whether any particular person wants to live in Ave Maria town seems to me to be besides the point. So long as we don't all have to live in any particular version of Utopia, I am happy to let everyone sort themselves into whatever Nozickian communities they want.
The interesting issue here - i.e. the one I haven't puzzled out yet - is why people with whom I usually find myself in agreement think it is a bad idea to move the law school into Ave Maria town independently of whether they think that moving the law school at all is a bad idea. Those who find it "creepy" (like Juan) seem to do so because they object to the closing off of the community from the wider community. The very idea of a university, however, is to some extent a place where people are to a degree sheltered from the "real world" to allow them to focus on learning. What's particularly creepy about people wanting to be in an environment free from pornography, etc.? This doesn't strike me as any different from, say, people at a law school in a rural town touting the atmosphere available from rural living. Given UPS, the internet, Amazon.com, Netflix, and so on, I don't think "Ave Maria town" is likely to be particularly more closed off from the "real world" than most small towns in rural areas are today. What will be different is that it will be a community that shares values, Catholic values as it turns out, and that, in turn, strikes me as sounding a bit like what you might find in a monastic community.
Ave Maria town is going to be a lot more open than most monastic communities, of course. But monastic communities were (and are) wonderful places to learn, think, pray, and live. Spending law school in a community of shared values doesn't strike me as a bad thing. Indeed, I went to law school at the University of Texas at Austin and Austin (or, the university portion of it anyway) was about as monolithic in terms of its "progressive politics" and so forth as Ave Maria town is likely to be in a different direction. Of course, I presume that the education that the Ave Maria students get in Ave Maria town is not closed off - they'll be studying the law as it is, as well as the law as it should be. By all indications, however, Ave Maria is doing a tremendous job training new lawyers already and there is no reason to expect that to stop.
So, I'd particularly welcome comments on why it is "creepy" or otherwise undesirable to create a community of shared values in which to study law (or anything else). Any response, Juan?
"We'll own all commercial real estate," Mr. Monaghan declared, describing his vision. "That means we will be able to control what goes on there. You won't be able to buy a Playboy or Hustler magazine in Ave Maria Town. We're going to control the cable television that comes in the area. There is not going to be any pornographic television in Ave Maria Town. If you go to the drug store and you want to buy the pill or the condoms or contraception, you won't be able to get that in Ave Maria Town."
Juan, and Ann Althouse, referred to this as "creepy".
There are several issues involved here and I want to only focus on one. First, whether Ave Maria should move or not is not an issue I have a strong opinion about. At least some of the students, faculty, and alumni object to the move and it may or may not be a good idea. I wouldn't rule out it being a reasonable move (the legal job market in Michigan is not as good as in Florida in general and that matters to some extent), but let's leave that aside.
Second, whether any particular person wants to live in Ave Maria town seems to me to be besides the point. So long as we don't all have to live in any particular version of Utopia, I am happy to let everyone sort themselves into whatever Nozickian communities they want.
The interesting issue here - i.e. the one I haven't puzzled out yet - is why people with whom I usually find myself in agreement think it is a bad idea to move the law school into Ave Maria town independently of whether they think that moving the law school at all is a bad idea. Those who find it "creepy" (like Juan) seem to do so because they object to the closing off of the community from the wider community. The very idea of a university, however, is to some extent a place where people are to a degree sheltered from the "real world" to allow them to focus on learning. What's particularly creepy about people wanting to be in an environment free from pornography, etc.? This doesn't strike me as any different from, say, people at a law school in a rural town touting the atmosphere available from rural living. Given UPS, the internet, Amazon.com, Netflix, and so on, I don't think "Ave Maria town" is likely to be particularly more closed off from the "real world" than most small towns in rural areas are today. What will be different is that it will be a community that shares values, Catholic values as it turns out, and that, in turn, strikes me as sounding a bit like what you might find in a monastic community.
Ave Maria town is going to be a lot more open than most monastic communities, of course. But monastic communities were (and are) wonderful places to learn, think, pray, and live. Spending law school in a community of shared values doesn't strike me as a bad thing. Indeed, I went to law school at the University of Texas at Austin and Austin (or, the university portion of it anyway) was about as monolithic in terms of its "progressive politics" and so forth as Ave Maria town is likely to be in a different direction. Of course, I presume that the education that the Ave Maria students get in Ave Maria town is not closed off - they'll be studying the law as it is, as well as the law as it should be. By all indications, however, Ave Maria is doing a tremendous job training new lawyers already and there is no reason to expect that to stop.
So, I'd particularly welcome comments on why it is "creepy" or otherwise undesirable to create a community of shared values in which to study law (or anything else). Any response, Juan?
Posted by Andy Morriss on
Sunday November 27, 2005 at 9:00pm